004. January 26, 2019

[thisweekmod]

I'm sure you all know this already, but: Always check the comments on a thing! A discussion post is just the starting point-- comments are the continuation and often end up even more interesting than the original post.

And speaking of comments: you are totally welcome to leave any kind of comment here. A response to a link, an idea for a new link, a tip or question about the newsletter-- anything goes.

Onto the issue!

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thisweekmeta collects links of fandom meta and discussions from all over the web, and welcomes submissions from readers. If you know of an excellent fandom discussion post that we've missed, whether new or old, please feel free to leave a comment on this newest issue or email the editor.

The FAQ can be found here, and our editorial guidelines can be found here. Questions, concerns, and feedback are all welcomed.

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Newer Stuff

cfiesler posted How does new canon impact fanfiction production?: "In looking at the relationship between two of the questions - how often respondents write fanfiction and when they are most likely to write fanfiction - we see that people who write fanfiction more often are less impacted by new canon, and people who write less frequently are more likely to be inspired by new canon."

fairestcat posted On Fandom and the "culture of selling": "Does joining someone's Patreon or tipping them on Ko-Fi or purchasing a fanwork from them change that relationship? Probably. But not as much as some old-school fans seem to think."

quiltingsarah (Reddit) posted The olden days of fanfiction-share your memories: "The first sort of fanfic I read was in a magazine that had a story in installments I got at a Doctor Who convention in the early 1980's. it was a Star Trek/Who xo, never did read the end of it because I only found the first 2. So I'd go to cons, pick up the occasional zine."

quinfirefrorefiddle posted Fandom History- A Quick Rundown: "There are certain events, trends, or facts in fandom that were important enough, or in some cases just weird enough, that I'm always kind of surprised when I meet a fan who hasn't heard of them. Totally unfair, of course, I learn about fandom history I've never heard of before all the time."

Rhodanum (Pillowfort) posted THE PREQUEL TRILOGY IN THE 2000s -- A WOMAN-RUN STAR WARS FANDOM: "One thing that gets lost when discussing the history of Star Wars is how heavily female-dominated the fandom for the Prequel Trilogy was, particularly in the 2000s. Fan-site after fan-site, fan-shrine after fan-shrine, the userbases of which were overwhelmingly girls and women."

Steven T. Wright for Ars Technica posted “The Linux of social media”—How LiveJournal pioneered (then lost) blogging: "Growing up on the Web at the dawn of the social media age (circa 2007), it felt like all the connectivity-obsessed sites forming the burgeoning core of the new Internet were haunted by a faded spectre called LiveJournal. As a teen, I never actually knew anyone who had one, but I heard whispers and rumors about drama on the service all the time."

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Flashback - be back soon.

Link taken down! I'll put a new one up later today. In consideration of the link owner, I have also screened comments that a) had the link or a related one, b) a Google-able quote, c) link owner's name.

Comments

[batwrangler]

DW: where it is not only safe to read the comments, it is generally delightful!

[yvannairie]

Ouch oof that post from 2006, because I had an experience exactly like that just two years ago. Ten years later and the badness of net-based fandoms where nothing is good enough and everything is up for consumption (and then tearing to pieces because it wasn't Good Enough) is going strong and possibly getting even worse as all of internet slowly becomes a place where nuance goes to die.

[sharpiefan]

Thank you for posting this stuff. Haven't got much else to say right now, but thanks. :D

[thisweekmod]

It's a link from Fanlore-- I'll update the post with the Fanlore page link as well for more context.

[stellar_dust]

The post is also available on their DW. I don't know if it's worth doing the work to track down DW mirrors of old posts by people who now use DW as their primary platform; and/or whether anything linked from fanlore is automatically the canonical version of the post ...

btw, I love that you're including blasts from the past, it really puts things in perspective!

[kore]

I thought there wasn't a policy about linking from Fanlore/older posts yet? Because the person you are quoting from Fanlore doesn't have a links policy on their page that I can see. Is the policy going to be that stuff on Fanlore can be linked without asking permission?

[muccamukk]

They did ask for input on the last rules post, and got none.

[kore]

There's still no policy, though. If thisweekmeta is going to link to Fanlore entries without asking permission, that should be in the Finding meta on Fanlore may be one thing, but finding it on Fanlore and then directly linking to the person's DW, especially if they don't have a link policy and if the post is that old....I am personally not happy with that. The FAQ says "Suggestions, requests for further clarifications, and brainstorming about whether posts older than 5 years (or linked to on Fanlore) still need permission to link are welcome".

Linking directly to the DW of someone whose meta was found on Fanlore seems to violate the opt-in policy.

[muccamukk]

Hmmm. I can definitely see what you mean.

For me that's sort of fan history stuff, that's been out there so long that I can see not asking.

It got linked around to a million people back on LJ, it's on fanlore, cat is well and truly out of the bag and has had kittens who have had kittens. I don't especially see the harm in linking to it now. It's fan history at this point.

I'm trying to think how I would feel, but I'm not a good example on this regard.

Re: complaining about complaining

[thisweekmod]

Sure, that's understandable. What about just linking to the Fanlore page itself?

Re: complaining about complaining

[oldtoadwoman]

"thirteen years ago"

That makes it even better. I want to believe the very kids she was complaining about are the ones rolling their eyes at "kids these days".

[thisweekmod]

To be clear (and a little pedantic), I did not link to her current DW, I linked to her LJ which she no longer updates. However, I do see your point (and it's easy enough to find her DW via her LJ). I've asked her here on DW about her linking policies/told her about the Fanlore page. I don't know Fanlore's linking policy, personally.

[kore]

Yeah, sorry, I mistyped! You can find the entry easily enough on her DW using the calendar function I think.

I don't know Fanlore's linking policy, personally.

Yeah I don't either, since I've never had anything to do with it.

[kore]

Argle, I meant LJ! Not DW.

[thisweekmod]

Okay, well I found their Citation Policy (https://fanlore.org/wiki/Fanlore:Linking_Guidelines) which says:

"In general, you may quote, cite, and link public content. However, carefully consider the wishes of the content creator or the expectations of the community beforehand. For instance, link to the main page of a fan's website if she has asked, rather than directly to her story or piece of art. Likewise, if members of a community or participants in a fannish activity that you are writing about expect that you will inform content creators when you link to them, then you should do so. Examples:

Links to content hosted on the Wayback Machine
Author and artist personal websites
Public LiveJournal communities
Public mailing lists at Yahoo groups
Public blog and journal entries
Fan fiction archives"

So, hm.

[kore]

I guess the problem I have (again, not knowing much about Fanlore) is not knowing whether or not the person linked to directly had anything to do with the Fanlore entry, or knew anything about it at all. Maybe I'm just making a big fuss and everyone would be OK with a link to the Fanlore entry.

[muccamukk]

As far as I know, fanlore's policy for linking to things is "if it's a public post and is of interest to fan history" or something in that line. It certainly doesn't ask for permission, and frankly has a pretty baffling selection of stuff (I've had some odd encounters with the site).

[thisweekmod]

It's a good discussion to have! I was hoping someone would weigh on Fanlore links (which is why I asked about them the other day). Personally (and obviously) I think if it has a Fanlore page it's okay to link, especially if it's older and being presented in a historical kind of way, but perhaps I will merely link to the Fanlore page itself. Or not! I'm interested in seeing what other people think. :)

[novembermond]

aaaah the article about LJ is so good! "russified corpse" omg, haha. Now I feel so nostalgic, but also so glad I'm off that site.

[kore]

Yikes, Martha's experience https://muccamukk.dreamwidth.org/1105034.html?thread=6500234#cmt6500234

[kore]

I think if it has a Fanlore page it's okay to link, especially if it's older and being presented in a historical kind of way, but perhaps I will merely link to the Fanlore page itself. Or not!

Maybe put up a separate post with a question about Fanlore? Or spotlight it somehow, because yeah, I completely missed the parenthetical statement about it (and missed anything other than that if it was in a different entry).

[muccamukk]

I'd forgotten about that until I dug it up. That's definitely tipping me more towards the ask the person first side.

Though I really like linking to old stuff, and find it really valuable to have that history there. And some people just aren't going to be reachable to ask any more.

(opens a parenthetical aside, gets distracted by cat, forgets what was going in this space)

[thisweekmod]

Well, if people are iffy about Fanlore's linking policies anyway, it shouldn't be too much harder to ask link owners if I can link them, even if it's 10+ years old. And if they're still active somewhere online, even easier. The only thing I worry about is the people who aren't active, or can't be found. I don't mind NOT linking to their stuff in that case, but it seems a shame to miss out on potentially good discussions/meta, especially if I'm trying to promote older stuff to help tie in the new stuff within the larger fandom world.

There are other options, though! I could link to older fan sites, or highlight academic fan stuff instead.

[thisweekmod]

I can do that! Maybe a poll, with comments open for discussion.

[kore]

I'd forgotten about that until I dug it up. That's definitely tipping me more towards the ask the person first side.

Yeah, me too. But IDK, I think it was the combination of the post being that old/mostly a vent/linked to directly on the LJ version that gave me misgivings. I really don't know that much about Fanlore -- I don't tend to use it.